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Overseas Samoan Criminals Deported to Samoa


Samoa Observer

Dear Editor,

Is the Attorney General out of his mind? Maybe playing too much golf in the sunshine makes him vulnerable to this crazy idea?

Why should we support these kinds of people - deportees who were given a golden opportunity to live and work overseas while the regular Samoan tends the land and tries to make ends meet?

The locals should be given a lifeline because they do not have the same opportunities as the deportees had overseas.

Having being deported, is their own doing; we did not tell them to misbehave overseas.

The Attorney General should concentrate on cleaning our own frontyard first instead of trying to look good to the overseas media.

There are many problems and needs we have locally like a shelter for the mentally sick, but please, a halfway house for these people, I don't think so.

AG you should spend your energy on some ideas to improve the livelihood of our people locally.

As a final thought, try coming down from your high chair and experience the real world we are living in (more like we are struggling to survive in), on a daily basis.

Disgusted,
John Doe





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Following is the Editorial by Keni Lesa incorporating the Letter above as well providing a general overview of the issue:

Samoan Criminal Deportees adding pressure to the Local System

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I totally and utterly AGREE with the 'Letter to the Editor' above.

The Editorial mentions that the majority of Overseas Samoan Criminals left the shores of Samoa under the Age of Five. Why then should Samoa be responsible for such Persons who were 'developed' by NZ, Australian and U.S Systems? It is grossly unfair for those Nations to dump these Criminals in Samoa for nothing other than to ease the pressure off their own Systems. Australia, NZ and the U.S should be responsible for these Criminals from start to finish.


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The idea of moving overseas from many islanders view point is searching for green pastures. Education for some, money for some, lifestyle for some etc. The majority of them had their dreams come true because they achieve and excel. Really?

What about others? This is exactly where the blaming game comes onboard. Is it parents, friends, relatives, tv, internet, computers, food, environment, or whatever? And why Samoa as this article said?

First of all, the article highlights how shallow and lack of understanding of the author in social problems and their roots. Sa'o ai le kale fo'i lea aga le makala a lou guku e le iloa e ke vale.
Secondly, he has no love at all. The author paints an ugly scene of selfish, egotistical, greedy, self-centred, ungenerous etc. Why? He said why then should Samoa be responsible for such persons ...

I congratulate Aumua and those who design this system. They aware of the many problems may and also arise from the community because of these criminals. Kalofa e. If we say e faavae i le Atua Samoa ae leai se alofa, sili pe a ave guku e faaguku ai maa iga ia pepese mai ai maa ae le o kagaka. Better to have a system in place ready to swallow the problems and spit out a solution so the community is well protected.

Ia aoga le koe fo'i mai Samoa, e a'oa'o aku ai le amio ma le faaaloalo e iloa ai ava i kagaka. If any or all of these criminals learn and practise this lesson for the rest of their life from this deportation under the system, then high five. Win win for all!




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Lioner, lay off the effing crack, re-read my post as well as the editorial and try again because you haven't answered my question as to WHY the hell should Samoa burden itself with the havoc being developed in Overseas Nations? If Australia, NZ and the U.S are going to deport Criminals back to the Islands, then why don't they set up a Rehabilitation Centre in Samoa at their expense to ease "such Persons" [or whatever you want to call them] back into the Community; rather than DUMPING them on the Island like Overseas GARBAGE?



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Usually, it's the Samoan extended families overseas that vote in favour of sending the 'bad boys' back home to Samoa - in the hope of relocating their roots, and knowing what it really means to 'earn a living' through manual labour in the plantations, and service to the extended village.

It is certainly not a new phenominine, and I think it should be supported well into the future. These so-called bad-boys contribute to the local economy, and more often than not they are rehabilitated after a while.

Rather than seeing this as a problem we should be seeing this as an opportunity.



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Hunter wrote:

Lioner, lay off the effing crack, re-read my post as well as the editorial and try again because you haven't answered my question as to WHY the hell should Samoa burden itself with the havoc being developed in Overseas Nations? If Australia, NZ and the U.S are going to deport Criminals back to the Islands, then why don't they set up a Rehabilitation Centre in Samoa at their expense to ease "such Persons" [or whatever you want to call them] back into the Community; rather than DUMPING them on the Island like Overseas GARBAGE?




Hunter, deportation happened on the ground of unqualified visa(s) in my view. What I don't know for sure and maybe you know, is that whether these criminals aren't citizens of NZ, Australia and/or USA. All I know is if you are an Australian citizen and in prison for whatever criminal, you can't be deported.

Speaking from experience, I deported once because of my visa not to do with any criminals. So I think if the deportations to do with visas, then the complain is in vain.

From the country's perspective, they have to protect the community by setting up a define system so both parties benefit.




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Saanapu-Tai wrote:



Usually, it's the Samoan extended families overseas that vote in favour of sending the 'bad boys' back home to Samoa - in the hope of relocating their roots, and knowing what it really means to 'earn a living' through manual labour in the plantations, and service to the extended village.

It is certainly not a new phenominine, and I think it should be supported well into the future. These so-called bad-boys contribute to the local economy, and more often than not they are rehabilitated after a while.

Rather than seeing this as a problem we should be seeing this as an opportunity.





I agree with the opportunity solution idea with the hope that they learn and contribute well for the sake of the community.



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Saanapu-Tai wrote:



Usually, it's the Samoan extended families overseas that vote in favour of sending the 'bad boys' back home to Samoa - in the hope of relocating their roots, and knowing what it really means to 'earn a living' through manual labour in the plantations, and service to the extended village.

It is certainly not a new phenominine, and I think it should be supported well into the future. These so-called bad-boys contribute to the local economy, and more often than not they are rehabilitated after a while.

Rather than seeing this as a problem we should be seeing this as an opportunity.





"In the Hope"; "In the Hope of what?"

This has been happening for years based on your Hope and yet your "Hope has not yet come to fruition with the Lot bringing their "BAD" influence back to Samoa and is the ultimate cause of the speedy rise of "Hardcore" Criminal Activity in Samoa today. Samoan Criminal Activity of yesteryear was virtually limited to petty theft and Moekolo's = All beyond that i.e Drugs, Major Robberies, Weapons dealings etc = their Base in Samoa has been developed by returning Overseas Criminals [who maintain their Links to Overseas Networks] in turn influencing the next Generation of Samoans.

The Samoan Immigration needs to re-assess its Re-Entry Requirements and cut the crap.

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Lioner wrote:

I agree with the opportunity solution idea with the hope that they learn and contribute well for the sake of the community.





For this opportunity [as you see it] to work in Samoa's favour without it affecting the Local Economic and Social Scene; is for Australia, NZ and the U.S to dump them in their own Overseas Samoan Communities and rehabilitate them there. Once they are fit enough to re-enter the Community at large and based on a Samoan Immigration Assessment, they can be permitted to enter Samoa and "apply" what they have learnt from their Samoan Communities Overseas.

If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then what makes you think they will have the ability to do so once they Land in Samoa? Same sh^t different Turf.

-- Edited by Hunter on Thursday 16th of June 2011 01:26:02 PM

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Lioner wrote:

Hunter, deportation happened on the ground of unqualified visa(s) in my view. What I don't know for sure and maybe you know, is that whether these criminals aren't citizens of NZ, Australia and/or USA. All I know is if you are an Australian citizen and in prison for whatever criminal, you can't be deported.

Speaking from experience, I deported once because of my visa not to do with any criminals. So I think if the deportations to do with visas, then the complain is in vain.

From the country's perspective, they have to protect the community by setting up a define system so both parties benefit.




Lioner; how can a Child under five years of Age migrate Overseas and Live there until Adulthood and not have their Papers in Order? Children are over-staying their Welcome now?

Regardless of whether or not they are Citizens of those Nations; the new Policy is, = "Muck-Up", get Deported and let the Country of Origin deal with the rest of your Life. It has only been in the last 5 years or Less which Australia has taken on the method by deporting Criminal Maoris back to NZ. Fair enough with some of the cases I have come across whereby they entered Australia as Adults; but with the case of entry as Children, developed in the System and then fobbed off to another System is nothing short of a pressure-release FARCE.

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Hunter wrote:

Lioner wrote:

I agree with the opportunity solution idea with the hope that they learn and contribute well for the sake of the community.





For this opportunity [as you see it] to work in Samoa's favour without it affecting the Local Economic and Social Scene; is for Australia, NZ and the U.S to dump them in their own Overseas Samoan Communities and rehabilitate them there. Once they are fit enough to re-enter the Community at large and based on a Samoan Immigration Assessment, they can be permitted to enter Samoa and "apply" what they have learnt in their Samoan Communities Overseas.

If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then what makes you think they will have the ability to do so once they Land in Samoa? Same sh^t different Turf.



I always like farming and that experience taught me many lessons in life. For example, a banana won't do well under the shade of any tree so I have to move the banana in an open field for it to produce a big aufa'i.

Your point of If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then ... is a valid assumption because if they can't perform in overseas communities how can they perform in Samoa.

All I can tell from where I live, there are many youths who don't know what they are doing in their life(s). I saw many in shopping centres etc during school time and just wonders what happened to them and what about the parents ... that maybe another root to the criminals. While in the shopping centre and figure out s/he want a new pair of shoes and no money, what do you think the next move ...?

The way of living under the shade of friends, gang members etc will never allow them to see any clear sunlight. Once they step out of that and landed in a new atmosphere, Samoa in this case, the world is your oyster as they say. They will receive support from bright tenderly loving Samoan people who can guide their life and future in a land of milk and honey ... lol



-- Edited by Lioner on Thursday 16th of June 2011 01:57:33 PM

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Send them to Nuutele and tell them that whoever makes it back alive wins a free ticket to Apolima.

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Hunter wrote:

Lioner wrote:

Hunter, deportation happened on the ground of unqualified visa(s) in my view. What I don't know for sure and maybe you know, is that whether these criminals aren't citizens of NZ, Australia and/or USA. All I know is if you are an Australian citizen and in prison for whatever criminal, you can't be deported.

Speaking from experience, I deported once because of my visa not to do with any criminals. So I think if the deportations to do with visas, then the complain is in vain.

From the country's perspective, they have to protect the community by setting up a define system so both parties benefit.




Lioner; how can a Child under five years of Age migrate Overseas and Live there until Adulthood and not have their Papers in Order? Children are over-staying their Welcome now?

Regardless of whether or not they are Citizens of those Nations; the new Policy is, = "Muck-Up", get Deported and let the Country of Origin deal with the rest of your Life. It has only been in the last 5 years or Less which Australia has taken on the method by deporting Criminal Maoris back to NZ. Fair enough with some of the cases I have come across whereby they entered Australia as Adults; but with the case of entry as Children, developed in the System and then fobbed off to another System is nothing short of a pressure-release FARCE.



Hunter, the following is one of the many cases of migrating kid in that age group.

Minister defends deportation of British man
A man who has lived in Australia for more than 40 years will be deported to the United Kingdom today.
Clifford Tucker moved to Australia with his parents from the UK when he was six years old.
RELATED STORY: Man to be deported after 40 years in Australia
A man who has lived in Australia for more than 40 years will be deported to the United Kingdom today.
Clifford Tucker, 47, moved to Australia with his parents from the UK when he was six years old, but never applied for citizenship.
Mr Tucker has convictions for a number of crimes, including attempted murder, and was in prison when each of his three children was born.
Minister for Immigration and Citizenship Chris Bowen has defended the decision to deport Mr Tucker, saying he has numerous criminal convictions and fails the character test set out in the Migration Act.
But Mr Tucker's lawyer Stephen Kenny says the deportation violates human rights, and Australia's migration laws are in breach of international law.
"I invite the Prime Minister to say 'These are not Labor Party principles. We need to change this law'," he said.
Mr Tucker is being held at Sydney's Villawood Detention Centre and will be flown to the UK today.
But Mr Kenny says his client is being put at serious risk.
He says Mr Tucker is mentally fragile and has barely anyone to support him in Britain.
"As far as we know, he's going to be left to his own devices," he said.
An appeal against Mr Tucker's deportation was dismissed by the Federal Court in February.
But Mr Kenny says this decision was wrong.
"He's not a threat to society, he hasn't been involved in any serious violence for at least 10 years," he said.
Mr Kenny says Mr Tucker is unlikely to be allowed to return to Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/17/3193851.htm

I'll have to talk to fsm if he still have that immigration rule book he he he



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CommonSense wrote:

Send them to Nuutele and tell them that whoever makes it back alive wins a free ticket to Apolima.





lol ... great for Sosai in sharing his Tuiatua's history



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Hunter wrote:

Saanapu-Tai wrote:



Usually, it's the Samoan extended families overseas that vote in favour of sending the 'bad boys' back home to Samoa - in the hope of relocating their roots, and knowing what it really means to 'earn a living' through manual labour in the plantations, and service to the extended village.

It is certainly not a new phenominine, and I think it should be supported well into the future. These so-called bad-boys contribute to the local economy, and more often than not they are rehabilitated after a while.

Rather than seeing this as a problem we should be seeing this as an opportunity.





"In the Hope"; "In the Hope of what?"

This has been happening for years based on your Hope and yet your "Hope has not yet come to fruition with the Lot bringing their "BAD" influence back to Samoa and is the ultimate cause of the speedy rise of "Hardcore" Criminal Activity in Samoa today. Samoan Criminal Activity of yesteryear was virtually limited to petty theft and Moekolo's = All beyond that i.e Drugs, Major Robberies, Weapons dealings etc = their Base in Samoa has been developed by returning Overseas Criminals [who maintain their Links to Overseas Networks] in turn influencing the next Generation of Samoans.

The Samoan Immigration needs to re-assess its Re-Entry Requirements and cut the crap.





I'm not so sure that your speculation is even valid. There are just as many successful cases as there are unsuccessful, if not more. I know of many teens who were sent to Savai'i only to return with discipline and self-control.

I guess it depends on where in Samoa that these 'Western convicts' are left to manifest.

There's no evidence that current trends in crime are being commited by the Western-raised residents, there's probably more evidence to suggest otherwise.


Ironically, Australia was also a dumping ground for British convicts, and yet here we're today with a thriving Australian economy.



America is also another prime example of a formal imperial convict centre now reaping in output by the trillions.


Samoa needs to work SMARTER in order to keep these residents more occupied, and they should be put to the test in more rural environments rather than in Vaitele for example - where they're most likely to establish old links with the locals.




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Lioner wrote:

I always like farming and that experience taught me many lessons in life. For example, a banana won't do well under the shade of any tree so I have to move the banana in an open field for it to produce a big aufa'i.

Your point of If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then ... is a valid assumption because if they can't perform in overseas communities how can they perform in Samoa.

All I can tell from where I live, there are many youths who don't know what they are doing in their life(s). I saw many in shopping centres etc during school time and just wonders what happened to them and what about the parents ... that maybe another root to the criminals. While in the shopping centre and figure out s/he want a new pair of shoes and no money, what do you think the next move ...?

The way of living under the shade of friends, gang members etc will never allow them to see any clear sunlight. Once they step out of that and landed in a new atmosphere, Samoa in this case, the world is your oyster as they say. They will receive support from bright tenderly loving Samoan people who can guide their life and future in a land of milk and honey ... lol


-- Edited by Lioner on Thursday 16th of June 2011 01:57:33 PM



HAHAHA! Very funny Lioner = I haven't laughed so hard in awhile.

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Saanapu-Tai wrote:

I'm not so sure that your speculation is even valid. There are just as many successful cases as there are unsuccessful, if not more. I know of many teens who were sent to Savai'i only to return with discipline and self-control.




It is not a speculation = It is the REALITY.

By the way, the subject is on CRIMINALS who have been deported to Samoa from Overseas Countries to a point of NO RETURN. You're talking about Teens who were sent to Samoa to visit their Families and return to NZ. The difference is between Oil and Water = Immense!

Saanapu-Tai wrote:

There's no evidence that current trends in crime are being commited by the Western-raised residents, there's probably more evidence to suggest otherwise.




You're telling me while sitting pretty on your Laurels in NZ that there is no evidence to suggest that a high level of Criminal Activity in Samoa is being conducted by those who have spent time Overseas? And all before you have even set foot in the Country or researched the backgrounds Persons in question?, HAHA, I didn't realise funniest Home Videos was already in session, LOL.

Saanapu-Tai wrote:

Ironically, Australia was also a dumping ground for British convicts, and yet here we're today with a thriving Australian economy.




There is a difference between petty crime such as stealing a Loaf of Bread from the Baker [to which the majority of Australian Convicts fell under] and Gang-Banging.

Saanapu-Tai wrote:

Samoa needs to work SMARTER in order to keep these residents more occupied, and they should be put to the test in more rural environments rather than in Vaitele for example - where they're most likely to establish old links with the locals.




Vaitele is the effing Whoopwhoops, LMAO!

So what you're saying here is that Criminal Samoans established their Links at the ripe old age of five before leaving for NZ, Australia and the U.S only to return as Golden Convicts later and pick up right where they left off? HAHAHA!! That's cool, that makes a great Movie Plot.

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The idea of a charitable trust for these x-convicts is compelling, and we should entertain the opportunity before casting it away. I think there's also a valid argument for financial contributions from America, Australia and New Zealand if these former residents and byproducts of their justice systems.

It is clear that children born in Samoa are finding it tough to intergrate in Western societies, and Samoan parents should avoid migrating with young children where possible. The bottom line is that the two conflicting societies are enough to brand a young child 'displaced' for a very long period, many never recover. The report in question recognises that just under half of all x-convicts were five or under before leaving Samoa. This clearly suggests that the other half were older than five, many as old as seventeen. The permanent transition at these tender ages of pre-puberty has a long-lasting impact on the child's development, and it's often a disadvantage to throw our precious children in these 'sink or swim' scenarios so soon in life.

Naturally, many of them have sunken, and return to the homeland as failed experiments. They are certainly a burden on our Samoan paradise, but a burden exploited by the PARENTS of these children - PARENTS that were in fact born and raised in Samoa.

The parents should be held responsible for the choice to migrate with children at vulnerable stages of their development and growth. Blaming the convicts for the problem only displays your ignorance of the greater issue here, and that's that the children did not ask for the migration, they were forced to follow suit.

These Samoan penguins were guided by thoughts of 'milk and honey' that they neglected the dangers that such decisions would have on the future of their children.


p.s

I meant vaitele-fou hehe.






-- Edited by Saanapu-Tai on Thursday 16th of June 2011 08:31:36 PM

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Saanapu-Tai wrote:

The idea of a charitable trust for these x-convicts is compelling, and we should entertain the opportunity before casting it away. I think there's also a valid argument for financial contributions from America, Australia and New Zealand if these former residents and byproducts of their justice systems.

It is clear that children born in Samoa are finding it tough to intergrate in Western societies, and Samoan parents should avoid migrating with young children where possible. The bottom line is that the two conflicting societies are enough to brand a young child 'displaced' for a very long period, many never recover. The report in question recognises that just under half of all x-convicts were five or under before leaving Samoa. This clearly suggests that the other half were older than five, many as old as seventeen. The permanent transition at these tender ages of pre-puberty has a long-lasting impact on the child's development, and it's often a disadvantage to throw our precious children in these 'sink or swim' scenarios so soon in life.

Naturally, many of them have sunken, and return to the homeland as failed experiments. They are certainly a burden on our Samoan paradise, but a burden exploited by the PARENTS of these children - PARENTS that were in fact born and raised in Samoa.

The parents should be held responsible for the choice to migrate with children at vulnerable stages of their development and growth. Blaming the convicts for the problem only displays your ignorance of the greater issue here, and that's that the children did not ask for the migration, they were forced to follow suit.

These Samoan penguins were guided by thoughts of 'milk and honey' that they neglected the dangers that such decisions would have on the future of their children.


p.s

I meant vaitele-fou hehe.






-- Edited by Saanapu-Tai on Thursday 16th of June 2011 08:31:36 PM






With the way you blab on half the time, it is quite obvious you haven't adjusted either.

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What is your problem dude? this discussion has nothing to do with you - why don't you add something constructive to this debate instead? it would come as a welcome surprise from your debates around sodomy - personal speculation and heresay.

Nothing substantial at all, nothing but an argument built on sand.


This thread gives you a fresh slate. Perhaps you can try building an argument on rock this time round?



-- Edited by Saanapu-Tai on Friday 17th of June 2011 11:24:35 AM

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I already said to send you to Nuutele. That is a constructive use of your time.

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With a mind like yours I would send you to Sa'anapu. It shouldn't be too long for a machete to go missing hehe.

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Proverbs 22:15
(15) Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far away.

Proverbs 15-5
(5) A fool spurns a parents discipline, but whoever heeds correction shows prudence.

Proverbs 15:20
(20) A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish man despises his mother.

Now that the kids are older, they become crims because the parents didn'ts do their PARENTING PROPERLY. I say fine the parents, maybey then they will try harder this time while the child still has hope. Or the child will see the parents suffer because of them and change their ways.

OTHERWISE GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PLAN, BUT FUKI-SLAM THEM HARDER THIS TIME BECAUSE THEY ARE OLDER. 000202F6.gifHAHAHAHAH000204E4.gif

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malo Spade oi Sosai,...lol.. how about a body-slam, butt-kick, then fuki-slam, hehehe,..se malo sosai!!

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Hunter wrote:

Lioner wrote:

I always like farming and that experience taught me many lessons in life. For example, a banana won't do well under the shade of any tree so I have to move the banana in an open field for it to produce a big aufa'i.

Your point of If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then ... is a valid assumption because if they can't perform in overseas communities how can they perform in Samoa.

All I can tell from where I live, there are many youths who don't know what they are doing in their life(s). I saw many in shopping centres etc during school time and just wonders what happened to them and what about the parents ... that maybe another root to the criminals. While in the shopping centre and figure out s/he want a new pair of shoes and no money, what do you think the next move ...?

The way of living under the shade of friends, gang members etc will never allow them to see any clear sunlight. Once they step out of that and landed in a new atmosphere, Samoa in this case, the world is your oyster as they say. They will receive support from bright tenderly loving Samoan people who can guide their life and future in a land of milk and honey ... lol


-- Edited by Lioner on Thursday 16th of June 2011 01:57:33 PM



HAHAHA! Very funny Lioner = I haven't laughed so hard in awhile.



LOL Are you laughing because of me banana plant?



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Lioner wrote:

Hunter wrote:

Lioner wrote:

I always like farming and that experience taught me many lessons in life. For example, a banana won't do well under the shade of any tree so I have to move the banana in an open field for it to produce a big aufa'i.

Your point of If they cannot behave and contribute to the well-being of the Overseas Community then ... is a valid assumption because if they can't perform in overseas communities how can they perform in Samoa.

All I can tell from where I live, there are many youths who don't know what they are doing in their life(s). I saw many in shopping centres etc during school time and just wonders what happened to them and what about the parents ... that maybe another root to the criminals. While in the shopping centre and figure out s/he want a new pair of shoes and no money, what do you think the next move ...?

The way of living under the shade of friends, gang members etc will never allow them to see any clear sunlight. Once they step out of that and landed in a new atmosphere, Samoa in this case, the world is your oyster as they say. They will receive support from bright tenderly loving Samoan people who can guide their life and future in a land of milk and honey ... lol


-- Edited by Lioner on Thursday 16th of June 2011 01:57:33 PM



HAHAHA! Very funny Lioner = I haven't laughed so hard in awhile.



LOL Are you laughing because of me banana plant?



They are in the right place for guidence. 0002035A.gif..............give them some 0002043B.gif........and they will 000201F1.gif on YOU! THEN YOU WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW efeke's body slam n butt kick 00020345.gif

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Lioner wrote:

HAHAHA! Very funny Lioner = I haven't laughed so hard in awhile.



LOL Are you laughing because of me banana plant?





Your Banana Plant and last paragraph, LOL.

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Sosai, I see that your methods have been truly tried and tested, LOL.

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Hunter wrote:

Sosai, I see that your methods have been truly tried and tested, LOL.



Pratice makes perfect i guess. 000203FC.gif

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