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Freehold Land "Within" Samoan Villages


I am from one of Samoa's Ancient most Villages and what I have always wanted to know is:

"How did Land occupied by Samoan-European Families with no Ancient ties to my Village become Freehold while the plots we Natives reside on remain as Customary Lands?"

The "Freehold" status provided European-Samoans with the opportunity to use the Land as security in order to acquire bank loans to set up their Businesses of which still exist to this day. No one seems to know what happened but the general consensus amongst Natives is that the Palagis just plonked themselves on the Land through a European settlement program and turned the Lands into Freehold on their own accord and through the power they held over Samoa's administrative System once upon time.

If Samoan-Europeans of yesteryear managed to turn Village Lands into Freehold Land then, why can't it be done now?



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LN


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Which village is this? All Palagi land was set up during the NZ and German administrations and grandfathered into the current system. Probably some Palagi married a Samoan and then had the family convert their land to his freehold.

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Hunter wrote:


If Samoan-Europeans of yesteryear managed to turn Village Lands into Freehold Land then, why can't it be done now?






easy there or you'll get FSM ranting again..

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Yea which village is this? And im thinkin along the same lines as LN... someone married into a Samoan family and did something perhaps along legal lines to put it in their name

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LN wrote:

Which village is this? All Palagi land was set up during the NZ and German administrations and grandfathered into the current system. Probably some Palagi married a Samoan and then had the family convert their land to his freehold.






What do you mean "grandfathered" into the current System? If you mean that 'Palagi Land' was returned to the Natives as of Independence then that is understandable.

It doesn't matter who married who, however the point is, unbeknowst to the Natives, Customary Land was made FREEHOLD to suit Palagi purposes. I'm not referring to Apia Town or other Villages which were uninhabited at the time, but I'm talking about a full blown fully functional Village here where it just so happens that all the Land AFAKASI Families reside on are classified as FREEHOLD while all other remain Customary enabling them to secure finance to build their mini Empires.

I understand that Land would have been exchanged with the Palagis for Guns, Tobacco and whatever else, however what "law" did they have then to re-write Customary Lands as Freehold? If a Law close enough or spot on the HRPP 2008 Land Legislation existed then is not the HRPP just tapping into the past and re-igniting it? OR if no Law as such existed is the HRPP tapping into the past but only "legalising" it?



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see-double-u-are wrote:

Hunter wrote:


If Samoan-Europeans of yesteryear managed to turn Village Lands into Freehold Land then, why can't it be done now?






easy there or you'll get FSM ranting again..




What I'm trying to get at is: A lot of People seem taken aback by new HRPP Land Legislation potentially alienating "Aiga" Land under one single owner or sold off to Foreigners, however it is nothing new taking into consideration Samoa's Land Exchange History. If we all gave a thought as to the fact that ALL FREEHOLD Land in Samoa today were once "Customary Lands" then the future should not be uncertain but rather crystal clear based on the fact that it has all happened before.

This Generation is lucky for they should be better prepared than their Forefathers were who did not see it coming. We know what to expect so my advice to all is to chill out, be merry and have drink once in a while, haha!

*Don't get dumped by a WAVE - You gotta RIDE IT*

LOL.




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"If at first you dont succeed, skydiving is not for you!" - Henny Youngman
LN


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Hunter wrote:

see-double-u-are wrote:

Hunter wrote:


If Samoan-Europeans of yesteryear managed to turn Village Lands into Freehold Land then, why can't it be done now?






easy there or you'll get FSM ranting again..




What I'm trying to get at is: A lot of People seem taken aback by new HRPP Land Legislation potentially alienating "Aiga" Land under one single owner or sold off to Foreigners, however it is nothing new taking into consideration Samoa's Land Exchange History. If we all gave a thought as to the fact that ALL FREEHOLD Land in Samoa today were once "Customary Lands" then the future should not be uncertain but rather crystal clear based on the fact that it has all happened before.

This Generation is lucky for they should be better prepared than their Forefathers were who did not see it coming. We know what to expect so my advice to all is to chill out, be merry and have drink once in a while, haha!

*Don't get dumped by a WAVE - You gotta RIDE IT*

LOL.






I love it when you talk dirty Hunter...LOL
Grandfathered means when the system changed from NZ to independent any lands that were registered under the palagi administrations as freehold, automatically remained the same status under the independent government. So they continued their status without any specific law making it so, it was just accepted. Sadly, NZ didnt reciprocate when it came to Samoans legal status those who were born under NZ administration lost their naturalized NZ status by virtue of the Mulgoon government.
But at least we stemmed the tide of foreign intervention with our independence and until this HRPP fiasci we were doing fine. The first order of business for Tautua if they win is to repeal LTR 2008.

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Samoa mo Samoa


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Date:

Hunter wrote:

see-double-u-are wrote:

Hunter wrote:


If Samoan-Europeans of yesteryear managed to turn Village Lands into Freehold Land then, why can't it be done now?






easy there or you'll get FSM ranting again..




What I'm trying to get at is: A lot of People seem taken aback by new HRPP Land Legislation potentially alienating "Aiga" Land under one single owner or sold off to Foreigners, however it is nothing new taking into consideration Samoa's Land Exchange History. If we all gave a thought as to the fact that ALL FREEHOLD Land in Samoa today were once "Customary Lands" then the future should not be uncertain but rather crystal clear based on the fact that it has all happened before.

This Generation is lucky for they should be better prepared than their Forefathers were who did not see it coming. We know what to expect so my advice to all is to chill out, be merry and have drink once in a while, haha!

*Don't get dumped by a WAVE - You gotta RIDE IT*

LOL.







the law does not alienate land, that's just fsm's (skewed) interpretation of the law..the law frees up land for development..and landowners collect their leases..it's a good law..unless if fsm is trying to claim land that he is not entitled to..
a faapea o suli ma feoi o suafa (which goes with the fanua), leai se mea o le a popole ai fua..

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see-double-u-are wrote:

the law does not alienate land, that's just fsm's (skewed) interpretation of the law..the law frees up land for development..and landowners collect their leases..it's a good law..unless if fsm is trying to claim land that he is not entitled to..
a faapea o suli ma feoi o suafa (which goes with the fanua), leai se mea o le a popole ai fua..




Well, some sort of Registration process needs to take place anyway to formalise Customary Land Ownership. We're moving on and laying a claim just by virtue of Blood and Tautua only doesn't cut it anymore.

Customary Land has always been open to development and leasing so the Law really is nothing new.



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LN wrote:

I love it when you talk dirty Hunter...LOL
Grandfathered means when the system changed from NZ to independent any lands that were registered under the palagi administrations as freehold, automatically remained the same status under the independent government. So they continued their status without any specific law making it so, it was just accepted. Sadly, NZ didnt reciprocate when it came to Samoans legal status those who were born under NZ administration lost their naturalized NZ status by virtue of the Mulgoon government.
But at least we stemmed the tide of foreign intervention with our independence and until this HRPP fiasci we were doing fine. The first order of business for Tautua if they win is to repeal LTR 2008.




LOL! Malo LN,

As part of Samoan Independence negotiations between the Fono o Faipule and the NZ Administration [specifically between NZ Prime Minister Fraser and Fono o Faipule Leader JB Fonoti] - ALL Land under NZ and German Administrations were to be returned to Samoans of which happened and therefore illustrates how the Government of Samoan came to own Lands. Land inhabited by Europeans intermarried with Samoans remained as well as any other Lands they had acquired through personal exchanges with Natives.

"Freehold" is purely a European Concept alien to Samoans and whatever Land early European Settlers had taken hold of, they alienated it from Customary Lands through their knowledge of 'Western' Land practices and by virtue of power over the Nations Administration and Commercial Institutions.

-- Edited by Hunter on Thursday 20th of January 2011 09:18:17 AM

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